tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post2890643351204586564..comments2023-10-31T12:58:36.729+01:00Comments on Evil HR Lady: Firing with a delaySuzanne Lucashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07129772885673695447noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-49680963710442981142009-12-18T20:18:59.496+01:002009-12-18T20:18:59.496+01:00I think it's bad form to spread too much dirty...I think it's bad form to spread too much dirty laundry to the other co-workers about why the employee is being terminated. It's unethical and puts them in an awkward position. It's better to just say that she's leaving the position as of a certain date and that new people will be coming in to take over her responsibilities.Sue Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09992864428653646752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-5514431492046086232009-12-17T02:21:50.641+01:002009-12-17T02:21:50.641+01:00As far as other employees not being aware of her p...As far as other employees not being aware of her performance level, that could be because she "does her own thing" on independant projects. They may not even realize what all her job entails and thus wouldn't know how she's doing.<br /><br />I had a coworker in this situation recently fired, and we were all shocked. But honestly we had no clue what she really did all day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-20698594864026615502009-12-16T22:54:36.434+01:002009-12-16T22:54:36.434+01:00Firing with Delay said... we are re-appointed for ...Firing with Delay said... we are re-appointed for another year. To terminate someone mid-year there has to be a significant problem like insubordination or illegal activity.<br /><br />I do not even have words for the above situation. This is why our country is so messed up. If someone is not performing, that should be enough to terminated them. Period.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-20646410311225171312009-12-16T22:32:00.101+01:002009-12-16T22:32:00.101+01:00Oh my...this is giving me a headache. But all ver...Oh my...this is giving me a headache. But all very good stuff. You need to watch Tabatha's Salon Takeover on Bravo to see what a real Evil lady can do! I admire her honesty and direct communication. Being in HR for 20 years, I have so much to comment regarding this situation, but most everyone gave similar advice. Bottom line: Be direct, honest, and do the right thing for the team. Evil HR lady is okay in my book!! That's what they call me sometimes!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-48539906800599460592009-12-16T19:09:57.413+01:002009-12-16T19:09:57.413+01:00FWD - That sounds like a plan : )FWD - That sounds like a plan : )R. Maynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-87666288926797146292009-12-16T11:02:54.219+01:002009-12-16T11:02:54.219+01:00I like your solution - the better fit should make ...I like your solution - the better fit should make the job work for her and you don't lose 6 years of knowledge. 3 months' notice - ugh!Marsha Keefferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18434767065314536530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-32180309493492369232009-12-16T01:27:37.580+01:002009-12-16T01:27:37.580+01:00Ow ow ow! You folks are merciless!
The position ...Ow ow ow! You folks are merciless!<br /><br />The position is being split because it currently encompasses high-level, independent tasks as well as routine clerical and bookkeeping tasks. We have a naval reserve vet returning to our office and we have to provide her with a job. She is much better suited for the independent tasks, and can take them plus another large project in a similar area.<br /><br />The second position would be 100% routine clerical and bookkeeping and the other half of that job would be from the two people on my team who are currently both working 10 to 15 hours overtime - taking the routine stuff from them so they can focus more on the administrative side. The overtime is with them and not her because they are much more productive than she is.<br /><br />So, no, we are not trying to be nasty and hire part-timers to avoid benefits.<br /><br />The reason for the long notice period is that our class of employees have annual contracts. Every year, if we are to continue, we are re-appointed for another year. If we are not to continue, then we are "non-re-appointed". That is in contrast to most places that are at-will, where you can be let go at any time for any reason. To terminate someone mid-year there has to be a significant problem like insubordination or illegal activity.<br /><br />The rules for our class include a required notice period. For employees who have been here less than a year, the notice period is one day - you can tell someone on June 30th that June 30th is their last day. For those employed three years or more, a letter of nonreappointment has to be given by March 31st.<br /><br />I will say that due to everyone's comments I am thinking that it would be fair to possibly retain her for the bookkeeping position. She hasn't been doing well at the bookkeeping part of the job, but it is possible that is because her attention is being split by the needs of the different parts of her position. I have time to do a formal improvement plan with her, and if she can somehow get her stuff together than I would retain her. There is no way that she could improve to the point of being able to do the higher-level position, we have been trying to improve her on that end of it for years.<br /><br />I thank EHRL and all the comenters, you have given me a lot of good ideas.Firing with Delaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-4361593319796245392009-12-16T00:08:41.120+01:002009-12-16T00:08:41.120+01:00To R. May and others, having worked for a "st...To R. May and others, having worked for a "state institution" years ago, I would guess that the reason the position is being split is so they can hire two people part-time and not offer benefits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-62326887901239097952009-12-15T21:31:53.011+01:002009-12-15T21:31:53.011+01:00I've always enjoyed the tone of the Evil HR La...I've always enjoyed the tone of the Evil HR Lady and it helped inspire me to start this <a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/HR-is-Broken/207660202415" rel="nofollow">Facebook Page</a> to take the conversation further. Fight the power!Ben Stonehttp://www.facebook.com/pages/HR-is-Broken/207660202415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-21441361755633898392009-12-15T20:42:53.662+01:002009-12-15T20:42:53.662+01:00I think HRLeigh's idea is excellent; hire one ...I think HRLeigh's idea is excellent; hire one person now and see if her performance improves. At one point I had a job that required enough work to be split between at least two people and when I was the only person doing it I am sure my performance was lacking. Of course then they hired someone to help me and my performance didn't improve but it was because I was miserable and pretty sure my boss was embezzling money. But that's irrelevant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-48738487482095560612009-12-15T17:58:15.088+01:002009-12-15T17:58:15.088+01:00Why is the employee getting 3 months notice she is...Why is the employee getting 3 months notice she is being fired for performance? Or is she required to be put on a performance plan for three months before she can be let go? (I think this is the most likely scenario.) My next question is then have you said, "If these performance issues do not change to meet expectations, YOU WILL BE FIRED."? (capitalization for emphasis only, don't actually shout this part) Is she getting updates on her performance on a regular basis? Or is it written that there is nothing that this employee can do to earn back her job? <br /><br />I agree with R. May above. If you need two people to replace her that could be part of the problem. Go ahead and hire the first person now and split the job. If she still underperforms then you have one person already trained before you hire the second.<br /><br />As far as talking to the rest of the department, this can be done without even referring to this employee's specific situation. The situation should be kept confidential and the manager can say that to the rest of the employees. Call a meeting, state that the employee no longer works here and here is what we need to do to cover tasks. Then the manager can discuss the current state of the company and department, including the hiring of two new positions. If the manager communicates the information they can and shows that they will keep personal situation private, I think they will be more likely to keep or earn the trust of the rest of the employees. If some individuals are particularly upset, the manager can meet with them one on one and discuss their concerns, of course without promising future employment, legal disclaimers, etc.HRLeighnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-35128122141516823872009-12-15T15:39:59.353+01:002009-12-15T15:39:59.353+01:00I agree with R. May -- layoff and hire 2 more peop...I agree with R. May -- layoff and hire 2 more people is a very bad game of semantics. And her co-workers are totally unaware of her poor performance? People who work closely with a bad employee know right away, and will say something right away.<br /><br />This has "not telling the whole story" written all over it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-51576519407708464672009-12-15T14:57:47.906+01:002009-12-15T14:57:47.906+01:00Have to say I thoroughly agree with your analysis ...Have to say I thoroughly agree with your analysis of the situation and I would also like to stress the fact that if her peers haven't noticed her lacking performance, then perhaps the situation isn't as clear-cut as it may seem.<br /><br />As her manager, you have a responsibility of doing everything in your power to enable performance at an acceptable level. The performance improvement plan gets a big Yay from me.<br /><br />Furthermore - courteous honesty is always the best approach in communication. Be as open as you can when communicating with the team.Lanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13713386646009175092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-62009522477516080252009-12-15T14:34:26.425+01:002009-12-15T14:34:26.425+01:00Actually I'm a curious about the poor performa...Actually I'm a curious about the poor performance.... did anyone else catch that they are hiring TWO people to replace her (and yes take on some additional duties)...so perhaps her performance is poor because she is doing a job that requires more then one person to perform satisfactorily?R. Maynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-67089420120013483952009-12-15T07:03:08.370+01:002009-12-15T07:03:08.370+01:00Agh, this misuse of "layoff" is becoming...Agh, this misuse of "layoff" is becoming my new pet peeve! I think people say it because they fear "firing" sounds too harsh, but a firing is a firing. It is not a layoff.<br /><br />Anyway, rant over. If you are worried about the other staff worrying their jobs are in jeopardy too, this could be a good time to let people know that if they have performance problems so serious that it could get them fired, they will hear that explicitly while there's still time to fix those issues. (And assuring them of this has the added benefit of subtly underscoring that Stephanie must have had warnings herself.)Ask a Managerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05281942480230532899noreply@blogger.com