tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post8261500808621398919..comments2023-10-31T12:58:36.729+01:00Comments on Evil HR Lady: What would you do?Suzanne Lucashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07129772885673695447noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-7643736512710544712009-10-18T07:54:57.114+02:002009-10-18T07:54:57.114+02:00It doesn't excuse this tech's alleged rema...It doesn't excuse this tech's alleged remarks but pharmacies are often very stressful places to work and there is often an adversarial (or indifferent) relationship between pharmacists and clients. Get the meds out fast and forget your're actually treating people because it doesn't matter to the company's bottom line (sad, but true)! I strongly agree with Michelle's earlier comments. First, conduct an investigation and interview each employee. If the tech's comments are accurate, I would term the tech (regardless of any prior infraction) and counsel those who laughed at the remarks with option to term for any further disciplinary problems. Laughter in these situations is often a gutless deer-in-headlights response rather than actual agreement with the person making the comments.Buffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06351090570776073943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-65858763306770476932009-09-25T16:11:12.571+02:002009-09-25T16:11:12.571+02:00Hi EHRL,
I think those responding focused on one ...Hi EHRL,<br /><br />I think those responding focused on one section of the story or another that was a hotpoint for them and missed the big picture. Basically we have a retail company and a disgruntled customer. The company must have had plenty of complaints in the past and have an established method of dealing with them. They either take them seriously and do a complete investigation with appropriate action or they ignore them and lose customers.JRnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-73946493682093756532009-09-14T18:39:48.934+02:002009-09-14T18:39:48.934+02:00This is the million dollar question. I have two ch...This is the million dollar question. I have two children and although there is a long list of things I would like to say to someone like this, I can’t because the people most affected by your response would be your children, not the pharmacist. So from a mother to a mother, think about what lesson you want your children to learn before giving a response.<br /><br />I think your response was wonderful and a letter to management is a great idea! Either that or leave your children with your husband, drive back to the pharmacy, and let him know how inappropriate his comments were Tanya Willettehttp://www.inovahire.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-37015380495770184392009-09-08T20:31:16.877+02:002009-09-08T20:31:16.877+02:00Whenever I see a problem where intent and offense ...Whenever I see a problem where intent and offense are mentioned I think about Toby's presentation on the Office... "so, in closing, intention is irrelevant." I digress.<br /><br />Lots of "fire the guy" here. I am surprised that, given the audience, there were so few "let's investigate to figure out exactly what happened" statements. Thoughtlessly offending a customer, breaching confidentiality in a confidentiality-intensive job, and speaking inappropriately in the presence of minor children are all discipline-worthy offenses. I've just found that you usually don't get to the truth as easily when you're already convinced that the subject of the complaint is guilty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-64225732094126439302009-09-05T03:01:06.616+02:002009-09-05T03:01:06.616+02:00Anon above me you are awesome.
Age inappropriate ...Anon above me you are awesome.<br /><br />Age inappropriate is totally subjective; I try to censor myself around strangers' kids to avoid the hassle, not because I believe my words are age inappropriate. I knew what birth control was when I was four. And guess what I didn't do; have a baby at 16 like my parents before me. Thanks mom for breaking the cycle (her mom pulled her out of sex ed). <br /><br />God we're such prudes in the U.S.TheLabRathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12519299790907271971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-85150858876688044442009-09-04T19:22:18.793+02:002009-09-04T19:22:18.793+02:00Susan, yes, I do indeed explain the Cialis and Via...Susan, yes, I do indeed explain the Cialis and Viagra commercials if they ask. I explain *everything* in a manner that is appropriate to their age.<br /><br />One of the things that the childfree get all over us 'breeders' about is the attitude that "everyone should watch their mouth around my kid." I especially loved the arrogance of those "Baby on Board" notes on cars...like I should be more careful around that car because the lives in that car were somehow more precious than the lives in a car full of old people. I don't think so.<br /><br />I don't buy into that. If there's something around that I don't want my kids to see (porn, for example), I remove the kid from the area. If someone says something in front of my kid that is an adult concept, I will ask my kid if they have questions about that concept. If I don't like a steady stream of 'adult concepts' fed into the kid, I remove the kid from the 'adult concepts.'<br /><br />I do not go out of my way to introduce them to everything; I am, however, letting the world swirl around us to a certain degree and commenting as I see fit.<br /><br />I do not run around trying to get everyone else to filter what they're doing because of the little ears. It is paying off as my children move into adulthood: they don't giggle when someone says 'penis' and they are making really adult decisions and doing a nice job of it. They don't always decide what I'd like them to, but they're adults and they know I'll love them anyway. They still come to me with questions and requests for advice.<br /><br />You see, I believe in this thing called 'free speech' and understand that it is my responsibility and right not to listen to 'free speech' if I don't care to, as opposed to running around chastising people when they exercise their rights.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-56195210293753648252009-09-04T18:27:49.394+02:002009-09-04T18:27:49.394+02:00@Charles- I absolutely agree with you. I don't...@Charles- I absolutely agree with you. I don't think that training would be the solution to this problem. How can you train someone on sensitivity or when not to laugh at an inappropriate jokes?novice-hrhttp://novice-hr.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-46896001363894849092009-09-04T05:43:24.020+02:002009-09-04T05:43:24.020+02:00A question for anonymous with the four kids that a...A question for anonymous with the four kids that are unshielded. Do you let your little ones watch porn so you can explain it all to them? Same thing. They'll eventually find out, so why not show them and explain it away to be sure they understand the way you want them to understand.<br /><br />Other people can help running their mouths about age-inappropriate topics. The television is bad enough. I don't believe in totally shielding children either. That doesn't mean people who say things they shouldn't in front of young children shouldn't be chastised. Really, does a four year old need to know about birth control? Would they actually understand? Some might understand. Do you explain the Cialis (not sure about spelling) or Viagra commercials to your children? What if they ask what erectile dysfunction is? Would you explain? How would you explain? Would you be glad your had the experience because at least you were the first person to explain it to your child? Also, just because you explain it doesn't mean they won't ask others and get bad explanations and ideas.Susannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-22760156552737274012009-09-03T23:41:31.196+02:002009-09-03T23:41:31.196+02:00Regarding the sub-topic of people mentioning '...Regarding the sub-topic of people mentioning 'off-color' or sensitive topics in front of your kids:<br /><br />I'm the Anonymous with four kids, and I never could understand why people will freak because someone said something sensitive in front of my children. I'd *rather* be around when they hear stuff because then I can explain the topic in a manner that I find appropriate. <br /><br />Shielding kids from OMGSENSITIVESTUFF is just an exercise in futility: they WILL hear things and they WILL have questions and the best thing we can hope for as parents is that we get the opportunity to give them the answer.<br /><br />And I say this as someone who had small children when the whole Clinton/Lewinsky mess was all over the news. Trying to shield the kids from sensitive words/concepts was impossible.<br /><br />Oh, and Pharmacist? I worked in healthcare HR for almost twenty years and that attitude has never been the norm. The rules of customer service still apply to the pharmacists, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-9311108788645874182009-09-03T10:57:26.356+02:002009-09-03T10:57:26.356+02:00the pharmacist is more educated than anyone in HR,...the pharmacist is more educated than anyone in HR, so he can say what he wants and you won't do a damn thing.Pharmacistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-89982336978129123972009-09-03T07:14:12.678+02:002009-09-03T07:14:12.678+02:00Assuming this isn't part of some pattern of be...Assuming this isn't part of some pattern of behavior, I don't see this as a firing offense. The guy intended some friendly humor and ended up insulting the mother. A quiet word with him, followed up by a telephoned or written apology from him should suffice. I imagine that he'd be embarassed and upset that he'd caused offense and would never do it again.Sassenachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08901658957162167373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-70315578874798297182009-09-03T05:30:27.646+02:002009-09-03T05:30:27.646+02:00I would interview all employees to get their take ...I would interview all employees to get their take on the ordeal. Once that was done I would bounce this off of HR and find out what they feel should happen and a written warning would most likely be attached to the Employee and/or employees file. All employees present are accountable, if it was found that any wrong doing had been done. <br /><br />I would also seek recommendation as how to repair the damage that has been done. Maybe they can all sit down to have some Kool aide together. All sides need to be heard before any decision can be made.keckardt13noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-69807095377976389552009-09-03T05:27:54.959+02:002009-09-03T05:27:54.959+02:00Henning Makholm: I agree that could be one way of ...Henning Makholm: I agree that could be one way of explaining birth control. What would happen in the case of say a miscarriage? Would some children assume that mommy took the medicine because she changed her mind about the baby? I'm not calling your advice into question. It is pretty good.<br /><br />The pharmacist is still a jerk, even if he was trying to be jovial in a warped sort of way (we're not sure about that). Who walks up to a pregnant woman and says that there is birth control to prevent that sort of thing? Those aren't his exact words, but it could be construed as the message.<br /><br />As a teacher, I don't use the word training in the same sense that I think others might use it or read into it. Where I teach, we do have training from time to time on how to relate to students and focus on the social aspects of teaching. I was thinking something along those lines for employees who deal with customers. Where I teach, all of us must go through this sort of training. <br /><br />I'm definitely not using the word training in a punitive sense or as a cure. I realize from watching some of my peers that it is still up to the individual employee to heed the advice given in training. I wouldn't call this sort of training sensitivity training or diversity training either. I think of those as being meant more for employee to employee relationships. There are a lot of parents out there who do not teach their children how to properly relate to other people and act in a respectful manner. Sometimes it feels like that is left up to teachers, which I agree stinks and is almost impossible.Susannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-17294964402527102802009-09-03T04:56:31.412+02:002009-09-03T04:56:31.412+02:00I agree with what Kate said in terms of how this s...I agree with what Kate said in terms of how this should be handled - professionally. I also agree that it might be someone who is looking for "free" nasal spray or something.<br /><br />But, as a follow up to many of the comments here and as a trainer I have to ask, why do so many ALWAYS dump issues like this on us trainers?<br /><br />Yes, I can train someone on <i>almost</i> anything; but I cannot train someone on how not to be a <i>dork</i>. This is something that he should have learned from his parents/guardians, etc. If he doesn't know how to behave by now I am not sure that any "training" will help. If truly needed, a simple talking-to from a manager should be sufficient.<br /><br />So, leave us trainers out of this one, please!<br /><br />P.S. I do NOT do "sensitivity", "diversity", or any other such B.S. training. Those are NOT training programs; they are used by companies to help avoid/win lawsuits.Charleshttp://home.earthlink.net/~nooriginalthought/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-39719767454380107372009-09-03T03:03:55.391+02:002009-09-03T03:03:55.391+02:00Granted, I didn't read all the responses I wou...Granted, I didn't read all the responses I would have to say the focus is too much on the discipline aspect and not enough on the customer. Remember people, HR is a "customer service" role. If it was appropriate I would call or email the person whom first contacted the company to get an overview of the situation first hand and to get a feel for the person who wrote the letter. Maybe by complaining they were just looking for free nasal spray. I would get a good feel for this just by the conversation with the customer. I would follow up with an investigation and talk with the employee involved. Once I got a better understanding and completed my investigation I would follow up with the customer to let her know the matter was settled and we appreciated her feedback but not go into detail. I mean, c'mon we still would like her to return to our store a happy customer.Katenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-32493057274492052332009-09-03T02:23:15.352+02:002009-09-03T02:23:15.352+02:00Susan says: There was one part that I thought the ...Susan says: <i>There was one part that I thought the pharmacist was way out of line on and that was mentioning birth control in front of such young children. Maybe I'm sensitive to it because I have a child who always asked "What's that?" to everything. What do you say when your four year old asks what is birth control that the man at the store was talking about?</i><br /><br />Why, you explain what (one kind of) birth control is -- medicine that a woman can use to control whether she's going to have babies or not. You don't have to be able to explain how it <i>works</i>. For extra points (and older children), explain how wonderful it is that such things exist, because before it was invented children could never be sure that their parents really wanted them. Now they can.<br /><br />I fail to see how this could be a problem.Henning Makholmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299831550580392748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-64049359195563708752009-09-03T01:10:10.062+02:002009-09-03T01:10:10.062+02:00I should note that I'm not writing this from a...I should note that I'm not writing this from a manager or an HR perspective, as I'm a recent graduate and new to the working world (this is also my first time commenting on your blog, though I've been reading for awhile.) <br /><br />I agree with earlier comments that it's possible (likely, even) that the pharmacist didn't intend to be offensive. But what he intended wasn't really the issue: he was rude, and he upset a customer, and two other employees felt comfortable laughing instead of getting involved. <br /><br />I agree with Kerry from ClueWagon that this suggests an unprofessional culture within the pharmacy. In my past jobs (mostly retail) I’ve noticed this sort of culture develop when: a) the manager is never around; b) the manager is so unable to relate to the employees that they all start feeling like the job is a joke or c) the manager isn’t very nice and everyone dislikes them to the point of wanting to ignore their instructions. <br /><br />While firing the employee seems like a proper response, I think that the most important thing to do would be to examine the management style of the store. If I was his direct manager, I would have to get more feedback from employees on this specific incident, but also on the overall culture. On the other hand, if I was from the corporate office, I would want to have a long talk with the managers at that particular location to figure out what kind of atmosphere was being created there. It’s fine to be chatty with customers, but this kind of humor can cross a line with many people.<br /><br />Of course I would also follow up with the woman who complained and grovel, grovel, grovel. <br /><br />- Johanna<br /><br />P.S. As one of four children, I can attest that people do make comments like this. I’ve also had people ask me if me and my sisters are all from the same set of parents, or if the younger two are (stage whisper) from another woman. Some people just don’t realize how they come off.jmkenricknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-89368890771824983452009-09-03T00:56:11.426+02:002009-09-03T00:56:11.426+02:00#1. inapropriate comments, the pharmacist was a l...#1. inapropriate comments, the pharmacist was a little out of line. definitnely needs some additional training, but i wouldn't fire him.<br /><br />#2. she has too many kids. people should only have one child, any more and you're contributing to the overpopulation of the earth, which if left unchecked will result in no more children for anyone. think of the future children!josh42042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-35150256929802472412009-09-03T00:52:58.760+02:002009-09-03T00:52:58.760+02:00Upon my first read through, I was really offended ...Upon my first read through, I was really offended about the comments. After going back through, I thought that some of the comments may not have been meant in a negative way. Seriously, I've worked with other scientists who are quirky that way. They offend others without the intention to do so. They simply have a lack of people skills that is often mistaken for rude behavior. You really have to get to know them in order to understand that they mean no offense. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try and improve their people skills once they are made aware that they offend.<br /><br />There was one part that I thought the pharmacist was way out of line on and that was mentioning birth control in front of such young children. Maybe I'm sensitive to it because I have a child who always asked "What's that?" to everything. What do you say when your four year old asks what is birth control that the man at the store was talking about? That is the part that I would be irate about. Even if you wanted to explain it in young children's terms, they wouldn't understand or could become scared if you said that birth control makes it so that mommy doesn't have a baby.<br /><br />As for what the employer should do, I think training and a formal warning should be in order. If something like this comes up again, the employee should be dismissed, and I'd tell him that during the warning. When you work with customers and just people in general, you need to be mindful of what you say. Not everyone has the same sense of humor or sees things in the same way. If you don't really know someone, then you really should keep things sort of standard and courteous. He could have said something like: Wow, you really have your hands full with three little ones and another on the way. What are their ages? That would have been a good place to stop with someone who is unfamiliar. It breaks the ice and starts to form a relationship.<br /><br />Of course all of this depends on what sort of track record this employee has. Does this employee get along with or even please other customers? If this guy has said rude or potentially rude things to other customers, then it is probably time for him to go, i.e. not a good fit for the business. If he's old enough to be a pharmacist, then he's old enough to know what mature and professional behavior means. This is just my opinion, and I have never worked in HR or had comparable experience. I think a letter from the pharmacy to the customer would be in order as well.Susannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-39862065632387915222009-09-03T00:38:36.607+02:002009-09-03T00:38:36.607+02:00I think your friend should have looked at the phar...I think your friend should have looked at the pharmacist very doe-eyed and asked, "what do you mean by that?" Letting him dig his own grave and throw himself in. I agree he was probably trying to make polite conversation but as it turns out is a bumbling fool. As for the bystanders, did they heartedly laugh or were they so mortified that all they could do was laugh because they too are social idiots?<br /><br />Honestly, people with >3 children are an anomaly and we are interested in that. How else do you explain the Jon & Kate phenomenon or the fact that I know that Michelle Duggar is having her 19th kid? Doesn't excuse his actions. But maybe she should have a witty come back up her sleeve, I'm sure she'll be able to us it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-53021431416748175292009-09-03T00:36:42.657+02:002009-09-03T00:36:42.657+02:00In all honesty, without having heard the tone in w...In all honesty, without having heard the tone in which these comments were made, it's hard for me to judge one way or the other...but the reality is that people mean well, but are frequently insensitive...and as adults, the best thing to do is simply turn the tables on someone who's crossed a line (intentionally or no!), by making it clear that you see things differently than they do. In this case, I would have laughed, hugged one of my kids, and immediately said, "Why YES! I've been very blessed--and I've got another one on the way!"<br /><br />If the employee meant to be offensive--then you've shown him he failed to be. If he was genuinely trying to make pleasant small talk (and was just inept), then you've shown him a new way to make nice small talk--so that next time, he can say, "Wow! You've really been blessed, haven't you?! :)"<br /><br />IF it was patently clear that the employee was being mean-spirited and was TRYING to be insulting, then by all means, get management involved...but really, isn't it better to change people's behavior in a positive way, (showing them how to achieve better conversational rapport), than to "tell on them"--and possibly effect change through fear and intimidation?<br /><br />As a side benefit--showing your kids how to deal with someone who lacks couth, kindly, is helping give them a skill that will be invaluable to them, throughout their life.<br /><br />My parents taught me to deal with situations like that as a very young child--and while I have often been startled by some of the very odd things people will say to me, responding as if I'm sure they meant something nice usually results in my finding out that they DID, in fact, mean to be nice--it just didn't come out right.<br /><br />Just my two cents! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-63807564705974994012009-09-02T22:15:55.030+02:002009-09-02T22:15:55.030+02:00I would remove any private information from the le...I would remove any private information from the letter then present the letter to the offending employee. Ask him in a polite tone how we should rectify the problem. His response should provide what his values are, apologetic, remorseful, cynical, etc. <br /><br />If he seemed genuinely innocent then I would recommend that he personally apologize to the customer. I send a quick apology to the customer, give a small update that he didn't mean to offend, and ask her if she could set up a time to come in to meet myself and the employee so he has a chance to apologize. Or maybe a video apology if she is not comfortable meeting him again. Whether she accepts or not, a written warning of the situation and another occurrence may be cause for termination. And depending on rules/laws/etc consider installing a video/audio surveillance at the front desk so you have proof.<br /><br />If he is not fully persuasive then I would have to strongly consider off-boarding him because if he cannot persuade me of his position then other customers will have a harder time accepting his reasons, then I (or some one more appropriate) would personally apologize to the customer in hopes to persuade her to try our new service. This is also tricky because you also want to make sure that he is not going to seek the lady for vengeful reasons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-93359006969950622009-09-02T20:48:05.819+02:002009-09-02T20:48:05.819+02:00@pelican: I have four children, and I have gotten ...@pelican: I have four children, and I have gotten loads of comments like this. I'm thinking that this dude thought he was quite the card and being very funny.<br /><br />I'd investigate and at the very least warn the perp and the laughers. If it wasn't the first time, I'd term, if they'd been warned sufficiently prior. If this has happened a lot, address that 'pervasive atmosphere' thing that was mentioned above.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-86554174465698050262009-09-02T20:19:45.512+02:002009-09-02T20:19:45.512+02:00Investigate, just to get all the stories. Assuming...Investigate, just to get all the stories. Assuming it's even close to true, I would require the employee to make personal and written apologies to the customer, and then I'd fire his sorry little butt. And as the store manager, I would also make personal and written apologies to the customer.Nuqotwnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33004692.post-46509177241623327912009-09-02T20:04:12.619+02:002009-09-02T20:04:12.619+02:00I agree that this incident would require further i...I agree that this incident would require further investigation, and that if the investigation indicates that this unfolded in the way the customer complaint states, the employee would at least receive a written reprimand.<br /><br />However, whether or not I would recommend termination would depend on the policies of the individual store or chain. If this is one of the stores that has already given its pharmacy employees license to inject their personal beliefs into patients' personal family planning choices (by allowing them to refuse to fill legally-issued prescriptions for drugs whose effects they find immoral), I don't think I could find much wrong with the content of what he said, but would let him know that unsolicited hectoring of patients on family planning issues should use a serious, moralistic, concerned tone rather than a jovial one.<br /><br />If this is a pharmacy that has strong policies in place defining the role of the pharmacist as limited to offering professional advice which is solicited and related to the medical issues of the patient, then I would seek immediate termination for gross misconduct.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com